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Starry Sky

Exploring and Sharing the depth of Scientific Knowledge within Stories that humans have been gifted from the Star, Land, and Animal Ancestors for thousands of years.

Episode 14: "Crocus' & Pokey Plants
with the Plant Guy "

Tessa Wolfleg

Siksika Nation


TESSA WOLFLEG from Siksika Nation, taught us about how 'science is LIFE and Math RUNS THE WORLD,' how Ancestral scientific knowledge is on "another level of thinking," her deep love for the crocus, getting punched in the face by humility, the connection between non-Native plants and trees and railroads, how "Alberta is POKEY," and the harms of over-harvesting and Pan-Indigenizing. Remember, any support from the "Ancestral Podcast MERCH" helps pay Knowledge Keepers & editors, to follow protocols and keep this podcast going. -Tessa, newly appointed “The Plant Guy” -Sharing knowledge with her people has become a priority because the community the knowledge is connected with should be taught it first. “We are still here!!” -be careful of Pan-Indigenization- there are commonalities between Nations, but each community has a unique connection with the Land, Plants, Animals, and other Ancestors that have shaped their stories, knowledge, and science. Pan-Indigenizing can be harmful because it removes the knowledge from the community and Knowledge Keepers. -Youth are our Leaders and the Elders connect us to the past. -University of Calgary- Indigenous Viewbook: . How a University degree can get your brain thinking differently! -“Science is LIFE. Energy is all around us” We are all connected! Listen to Rob Cardinal’s 2-part episode: - Growing up with her Indigenous & Beliefs allowed Tessa to question everything and see the science that is everywhere. Indigenous Science needs to be widely accepted, respected, validated, and understood. -Biogeoscience Institute: This is where Tessa realized “wow, Indigenous knowledge is Science” -Majorville Medicine Wheel: showing, with incredibly accuracy, significant star locations, as well as solstice and equinox cycles. (take these articles with a grain of salt, they are NOT written by local Indigenous people). Looking at how old this sacred Blackfoot place is, as told by Elders is even older than Stonehenge, shows the depth of science within Indigenous Knowledges. -“my ancestors were on another level, how do I get to that level of thinking?” -Ancient Indigenous Clam Farms on West Coast of Canada: -“Elder in the Making” -Crocus: when you see this first flower of Spring, it is a relief, you know you have survived that winter! It is a start of a new beginning. -sit and look at the trees. What can a tree like the trembling aspen teach you? Maybe your life story. -being in-tune with the Land allows us to understand our needs and those of the Land. -Everyone has a gift, when you find out what yours is, you can use it to help your family/community/people. -be careful when sharing knowledge that is gifted, there is a responsibility you have with that knowledge! Have HUMILITY and RESPECT. Many people are becoming protective of Indigenous Knowledge because of a history of exploitation, lack of protocols, overharvesting, and pan-Indigenization. Humans have to learn to adapt in a mixed world, these are shared lands with shared responsibilities. -the Earth is going through so much right now, the world is backwards. -Invasive Species: these can ruin the ecosystem and important diversity. If you are planting a garden, plant what is native to the area, do some research. -CP Railway and Invasive Species: European Fire Ants Railroad Ecology -Alberta Invasive Species Council -Alberta has rank winds and is poky....native plants have adapted to this weather! -what is human’s purpose? To love Additional Resources: “Popular Wildflowers of Alberta and the Canadian Rockies” Neil L. Jennings “Edible and Medicinal Plants of Canada” Kersaw, Owen, Karst “Alberta Wayside Wildflowers” Linda Kersaw “Alpine Plants of British Columbia, Alberta, NW America” MacKinnon & Pojar Gratitude to Support from JUAN-CARLOS CHAVEZ, the editing skills of EMIL STARLIGHT of Limelight Multimedia, and ALEX FLETT for marketing and pod support.

Episode 13: "Ethnomathematics solves real world problems"

Dr. Linda Furuto

Ka Pae ʻĀina o Hawaiʻi, Ethnomathematician

Linda Furuto Photo_edited.jpg

Dr. LINDA FURUTO is a mathematics educator professor & Director of the Ethnomathematics Graduate Certificate and M.Ed. Curriculum Studies, Mathematics Education. She taught us about how math is all around us- from angles in spearfishing to trigonometry and navigation, ethnomathematics is used to solve real-world problems, the importance of service learning, the wisdom of the Hawaiian Star Compass, and how we can create tools together to navigate the universe. She graciously donated her honoraria to the MAUI STRONG FUND, supporting immediate and long-term recovery needs of people and places affected by the Maui fires. Remember, any support from the "Ancestral Podcast MERCH" helps pay Knowledge Keepers, and our editors, to follow protocols and keep this podcast going. -Universe is our greatest textbook, from the heavens to the stars - Spearfishing & Mathematics (Light Refraction & Spear Fishing) -mathematics is not only taught within the four walls of the classroom -math is life, math is everywhere -experiential fish pods -engineering, preservation, land to sea, marine biology, navigation Pacific American Foundation Waikalua Loko Fishpond: -Ethnomathematics Graduate Division: University of Hawai‘i at Mānoa, -Math has existed since the beginning of time. -but it takes naming it, ethnomathematics, to be aware of it. -ethnomathematics is a tool to navigate the world. The pillars of the UHM Ethnomathematics Program include: environment, integrated content, teaching practice, culture, community, values, legacy. -“Current and Future perspectives of ethnomathematics as a program,” (book), M. Rosa, U. D’Ambrosio , D. C. Orey et al., -challenges students to solve real-life problems -value-based education -Polynesian Voyaging Society- Hōkūle‘a -navigating around the world on a traditional voyaging canoe. -learning to care for Island Earth -to honour the past and raise the next generation -Papa Mau, the first wayfinder -islands have limits, we have to work together to survive and venture beyond the horizon -Wisdom of the Hawaiian Star Compass -mental construct of the canoe- 32 star houses, accounting for the winds, angles, degrees, trigonometry. -being aware of all directions at all times. -you have to trust your internal compass - -we can’t change the wind, but we can change our sails. When we change our sails, we often arrive not necessarily where we think we need to be but exactly where we are supposed to be. You never should scold the winds, the winds are our family. -Future: responsibility to talk about the issues like land and water rights and protect what was here before. -University of Hawaiʻi News: First-in-the-World UH Ethnomathematics Program Approved by Hawaiʻi Teacher Standards Board -PBS Hawaiʽi: Home is Here Featuring the UHM Ethnomathematics Program -TODOS Mathematics for ALL Podcast: Ethnomathematics at the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa -University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa Ethnomathematics Curriculum Library (FREE K–12 and Higher Education Resources): Gratitude to Support from JUAN-CARLOS CHAVEZ and the editing skills of EMIL STARLIGHT of Limelight Multimedia

Episode 12: "Land Rights Science &
Human Responsibilities
to the Earth

Jade  Gould

Butchulla & Woppabura Scientist

JADE GOULD, a Butchulla & Woppabura scientist working on environmental public policy in Queensland, Australia, taught us about how Science helps us to better understand Landscape and Country where even mosquitos have a place within the Circle, the significance of Native Fire Mitigation practices, depth of scientific knowledge and Land-connection within Native languages, what are Land Rights, the importance of original place names to local knowledges and songlines, and how the Land is our grocery store, pharmacy, and teacher.... Remember, any support from the "Ancestral Podcast MERCH" helps pay Knowledge Keepers, and our editors, to follow protocols and keep this podcast going. Jade donated her honoraria to a youth-led Indigenous Science climate network in Australia, standing up for environmental and climate justice! -Science is understanding landscape, and understanding everything has a role; even mosquitos. -Environmental Public Policy: importance in working alongside Indigenous people for land and water management. -look at the restrictions often overlooked within policy, and open up processes and definitions (upon guidance from local Elders and community) that can hinder instead of support research that is beneficial to Land/Country, Community, and Sustainability. -Humans and “the Wilderness”: importance of recognizing and valuing the work done by humans with deep connections and understanding of Land/Country, in shaping highly biodiverse landscapes. -“Indigenous Knowledge & the Shackles of Wilderness,” Michael-Shawn Fletcher. - “The Wilderness Myth” Michael-Shawn Fletcher. - “Concept of Wilderness is Destroying the Continent” (video), Michael-Shawn Fletcher. -Fires and Climate Change -Indigenous Fire Mitigation Practices (IFMP) remove dry dense kindling through a slow, cool burn. When these controlled fires are not lit, fires can spread more quickly, burn longer and hotter, which doesn’t allow time for animals to escape, or regrowth to happen as easily. IFMP also allow for germination for many species. -but with more urban and developed area, these cultural burns are more difficult to conduct. -Indigenous Science is OLD! -Wonky Holes in Hervey Bay -Indigenous Fishing and Traps in Western Canada: . -Paleontology in Warwich Region- Finding “Monsters.” Yes, these are stories, but also morals and warnings that have deep connection to Land/Country and even science. (Githabul Nation) -“Mapping the Monsters of Aboriginal Australian Lore” -Importance of everything on Earth, even mosquitos! -everything has a place, everything has an effect -think of the rodents, insects, plants that rely on mosquitos to survive. -Story about how mosquitos saved Wilfred Buck’s (Opaskwayak Cree) life, told in his book “I have Lived Four Lives.” -Depth of Tellings, Knowledge, & Science within Indigenous Languages -Indigenous Languages reflect people connection with and understanding of the Land. Most are verb-based, reflecting the animation of all, with everything having a past/present/future. -Durang in the Butchella language means both arm and tree. -Responsibility TO the Land/Country -Humans cannot just TAKE from the Land, but what is gifted to us to survive (food, medicines, knowledge, air, etc..) come with a responsibility. -“Land Back” and “Land Rights” Movements - Land Rights, Australia: - Aboriginal Land Rights: -Turtle Island and beyond, Land Back: - “Land Back: What do we Mean?” 4R Youth Movement- - - be a decision-maker! -Indigenous Referendum in Australia, 2023 - - -Australian Fires, 2020 -the hottest and driest summer lead to the large-scale fires. Many of these could have been stopped if Indigenous Fire Mitigation Practices were used prior. -Environmental Science Forum, “solution to the increased fires -Importance of Names -removing Indigenous/Aboriginal place names disconnects the community from the Land, culture, stories, songs, and so much more. - “Uncover the Deep Cultural Significance of Aboriginal Place Names” - “Aboriginal Place Names” - “Restoring Aboriginal Place Names key to Recognizing Indigenous Histories” -Aboriginal Songlines- -BabaKiueria (short satire film), 1986 Australian satirical film on relations between Aboriginal Australians and Australians of European descent. . -check out the “Indigenous Carbon Industry Network:” -check out Ancestral Science Podcast’s Episode with TORRES WEBB- “Strength of Indigenous Science” Gratitude to Support from JUAN-CARLOS CHAVEZ and the editing skills of EMIL STARLIGHT of Limelight Multimedia

Episode 11: "Decolonizing the Land, One Native Plant at a Time"

Latifa Pelletier-Ahmed

Botanist, herbalist, Educator, Artist


LATIFA PELLETIER-AHMED, botanist, herbalist, educator, artist, and co-owner of ALCLA Native Plants and Nursery in Treaty 7, taught us about significance of critical thinking in science, plants as teachers and guides, the incredible adaptability and resilience of Native Plants, personalities of seeds, harm of mono-agriculture, honeybees aren't native, how to decolonize your lawn, and the importance of recognizing and learning about invasive species. Remember, any support from the "Ancestral Podcast MERCH" helps pay Knowledge Keepers, editing, and keeping this podcast going. -What is Science? Observation in many ways, about the world around us. - think critically about who created/write/passed on that scientific knowledge - who is profiting from that knowledge? -Global Science Description of the “Deadly” Water Hemlock. -thinking critically about the Global Science/Western perception of a “poisonous” plant, and opening up your mind to its gifts, how it can help you, just like the Water Hemlock helped Latifa! -What is a Native Plant? -plants on the Land prior to European Settlement. -ALCLA Native Plants: - learn which plants are native to your area, and which plants are non-native/invasive. - Alberta Native Plant Council: - Plant Watch: Engaging Citizens in Science: - Alberta Invasive Species Council: - look at the regulation in restoring Native Species, how can this be done “in a good way?” -Blackfoot People didn’t need to cultivate plants, they were already very abundant! - “The Plants and the Blackfoot”, Alex Johnston (book) - Kainai Ecosystem Protection Association (KEPA) @KainaiEPA -Health of the Ecosystem comes from its Pollinators - There is an absence of Native Species at seed banks! -Decolonialize your lawn! -please do NOT plant Kentucky Blue Grass! These lawns are NOT made to thrive in drought conditions, requiring excess watering. Native grasses thrive in drought conditions, and their natural habitats. -the land is not a carpet! Plant some Blue Grandma Grass, Bunch grass- these are mold tolerant and happy on the lands of Southern Alberta. -remove invasive/non-native species -learn about and plant Native species from your area. - - -know the bylaws of your area, but there should be exceptions for planting Native species. -Plant Medicines -Indigenous people have had relationships with plants and their gifted medicines for thousands of years. This knowledge is well respected and valid, but come with protocols. Be careful when passing on this knowledge, do it “in a good way,” with reciprocity, without ego, and for the community and Land. -remember that plant ancestor and oral teachings have different time scales -misuse of plant knowledge is real, and has consequences that may not be immediate. -respect the medicines, and don’t overharvest. Think about WHY you are harvesting, are you taking away from people who need these medicines for ceremony and cultural practices? -If you want to share this knowledge and you are not from that community, ask yourself, why are you sharing it, whose voice are you taking away? Other Resources and Links: -, check out their fish rescue program, seasonal flooding, weed pulling. - iNaturalist (app) - “The Cree Healer and his Medicine Bundle” by David E. Young, Robert Athlyi Rogers, and Russell Willier (book) - North American Ethnobotanical Database: - “Nitsitapiisinni: Story of the Blackfoot People” (book) - Stories and Spaces -Reader Rock Garden, in Calgary Alberta Remember, any support from the "Ancestral Podcast MERCH" helps pay Elders, Knowledge Keepers, and our editors, to follow protocols and keep this podcast going. And learn about the Native and Non-Native species in your area. Gratitude to Sponsorship from BLUE MARBLE SPACE INSTITUTE and the editing skills of EMIL STARLIGHT of Limelight Multimedia

Episode 10: "Moss Bags & the Science of Matriarchs"

Jessie Fiddler-Kiss

Métis Educator

We got to chat with JESSIE FIDDLER-KISS, a Métis mother, beader, entrepreneur, and educator, who taught us about Science as relationships between Land and time, how children are the best teachers of truth, love and how to play, the significance of trickster stories, anti-septic properties of moss, and the connection between swaddling and brain development. -The Moss Bag Project Moss Bag @ TELUS Spark Science Centre -the importance of community and Aunties supporting mothers. -“the moss bag is the anchor” (Jessie Fiddler-Kiss) -“children are our greatest teachers” -children as most connected to spirit, learning from the world around them; a skill and method of learning that is often forgotten about by adults. -children teach us about love, play, and new beginnings. -education system needs to shift and there is a desire among educators to support that shift- to allow for children to learn through play, discovery, failure and follow their own sparks. -“Indigenous Methodology: Characteristics, Conversations, and Contexts” by Margaret Kovach (book) -a great book that delves deeper into coming to know through Indigenous methods. -think about the limitations Western/Global academic processes and methods exert on knowledges that are connected with Land and Community? What are we missing if we don’t expand our minds and hearts to knowings and therefore processes/methodologies that are relational and community/land-based? -Dr. Carmon Gillies, Assistant Professor, Educational Foundations, University of Saskatchewan - A Critical Race Theory Analysis of Metis Teachers’ Counter-Stories: - Historical Racial Theories and Ongoing Racialization in Saskatchewan: - Dr. Gillies is Jessie’s Masters supervisor who has been inspired by her work on anti-racism as a safety framework for non-Indigenous teachers. -Trickster stories -Jessie is using “trickster stories” as a storytelling method for her Masters degree to focus on trickster as both teacher and a tool. -the trickster is a common theme in many Native stories and teachings, with the purpose of teacher, making mistakes to teach humans. -“Coyote the Trickster,” Syilx Okanagan and Secwepemc stories. -School References . Please remember to site the human/Elder and Land these stories are connected with. -“Trickster: Native American Tales” by Matt Dembicki, Michael Thompson, Jonathan Perry, et al. (graphic novel) -“Trickster,” Eden Robinson (series of books) (also CBC show based on book) -who/what is a Trickster in your community/culture? How do you learn from these stories/knowledges? -“Whiteness as Property,” by Cheryl Harris (book) - -“Critical Race Theory, an introduction,” by Richard Delgado and Jean Stefancic (book) -Moss Bag Science -moss bag as a tool for survival, so caregivers could continue to work with babies. -Sphagnum moss, used as ‘diaper,’ is anti septic and anti fungal. Its absorbant properties meant there were little (if no) diaper rash. It is also antibacterial, and has been used on wounds to heal and protect them- It was reusable, and when the moss was used up, it went back to the earth. “ Antibacterial activities of some mosses including Hylocomium splendens from South Western British Columbia” S.J. Kang et al.,,both%20World%20Wars%20%5B2%5D. - Swaddling mimics how babies are held in the womb and how they are delivered from the spirit world. It also supports in brain development in babies, by continuing to hold them in the 4th trimester- post birth. During this time both the baby, mothers bodies and some fathers, are flooded with hormones to allow for neuroplasticity in neural pathways- making it a prime time for the family for healing, learning and growth! - The practice of skin to skin also helps regulate the baby and they sleep better if they are near loved ones in the 4th trimester, into toddlerhood. -being in a moss bag, being carried around all the time while people are working, gathering, telling stories, allows for the babies to be much more observant, always learning from their environment. -Beading and Moss Bags -every community and family has different symbols and colours and patterns of beading. Métis beading is often very colourful, usually on a black background with representations of florals or other plant medicines, and patterns of geometrical rotation and scale. Blackfoot beading is more geometrical, with patterns of triangles, lines, and geometrical reflection although there are many floral Blackfoot designs too! -Re-matriate the lost Moss Bag -help us re-matriate this lost Ancestor. Maybe the beading patterns or colours look familiar to you? Check it out here: Email if you have information. -Land-based Indigenous systems Education Program -upcoming programs for skills, conversations, and topics you wish you learned in school. Kind of like listening to your aunties and grandparents talk in the kitchen when you were supposed to be sleeping. Also it will offer community land-based programs! - -“Prison of Grass: Canada from a Native point of view,” by Howard Adams (book) Remember, any support from the "Ancestral Podcast MERCH" helps pay Elders, Knowledge Keepers, and our editors, to follow protocols and keep this podcast going. Gratitude to Sponsorship from BLUE MARBLE SPACE INSTITUTE and the editing skills of EMIL STARLIGHT of Limelight Multimedia


Help Re-Matriate this Moss Bag

If you have information please email


Episode 9: "Ancestral Science:
Space Justice & Cosmic Relationality"

Alvin Harvey

Navajo/Dene Scientist

With MIT scientists fron the Navajo Nation, ALVIN HARVEY described the differences between the two MIT's (yes, there are two!), what it means to be in relationship with space? "space justice," how space is alive, remembering not to do donuts on Mars, how relationships cannot be destroyed but renewed, and how humans are really not as disconnected from space as we may think. Remember, any support from the "Ancestral Podcast MERCH" helps pay Elders, Knowledge Keepers, and our editors, to follow protocols and keep this podcast going. SHOWNOTES: - think about what it means to go away from your home? to go to University, college, or away for a job. How does this change you? Can those changes, or scars become armour? Think about what happens when you are forced from your home, homeland, community, plant medicines, teachings, and how significant those wounds and scars can be? - humility and mistakes: how much room do you leave for those? to learn and grow from them? part of this is to remember and acknowledge your helpers- these can be people, gifts, medicines, trees, animals, etc. that have helped guide you on your journey. Because this journey is difficult, and we cannot do it alone. Space Justice: How do we travel to space in a good way? -"Blending science & tradition: sharing remote sensing technologies with Indigenous communities and their land" (article) - The Settler Logics of (outer) Space: - Dr John Harrington: Indigenous and Anti-Colonial Views of Human Activity in Space. - Indigenous & Anticolonial Views of Human Activity in Space. - IRM and the Science of Being Off-Earth. - Thinking about tribal sovereignty, space justice, and peace-making- disconnecting community from space and the consequences of not connecting. - what is your relationship with Space? it is not as disconnect as we seem to think it is! - think about your relationship with air, wind, stars, where is the connection between them all? Navajo Nation and Cremated Remains on Moon: (article),and%20upset%2C”%20he%20said "Indigenizing Philosophy through the Land: A Trickster Methodology for Decolonizing Environmental Ethics & Indigenous Futures" (book) by Brian Burkhart - Two-Eyed Seeing from Mi'kmaw Elder ALBERT MARSHALL:,for%20the%20benefit%20of%20all. - (article- research) - Two Row Wampum Belt, more info - LIke Dr. Melanie Goodchild said (Episode 6), that space between world is the "spirit space," and Alvin mentioned, this is the space of complementary ideas and relationality. But Unfortunatley there is still soo much disconnect and a lack of openess to subjective and relational methods in this space. Alvin would like to send gratitude to: - Mi’kmaw Professor Hilding Neilson. - Ojibwe, Black, and Swedish descent Professor Deondre Smiles. - Shoshone Scholar and Director of the Salish Kootenai Indigenous Research Center, Dr. Ren Freeman. - Kanaka Maoli Scholar and Activist Dr. Uahikea Maile. - Anishinaabe Knowledge Keeper Douglas Sinclair.,and%20helper%20in%20the%20community. - Sonoran Yaqui Scholar and Educator Dr. Juan-Carlos Chavez. & Check out Ancestral Science Episode 2: Remember protocols, and "reference your resources" by connectting the teachings you learn here with the community, Land, and Elder/Knowledge Keeper they were gifted from. Thanks to sponsor BLUE MARBLE SPACE INSTITUTE of SCIENCE and talented editor EMIL STARLIGHT!


We began the conversation with DR. NICOLE REDVERS (Deninu Kųę́ First Nation) with defining both "science" and "healing," which lead to a conversation about how "everyday can be a healing experience," berries changing genetics, Indigenous Medicine Science as a reawakening, Land as healing and the effects of amplifying these connections through consciousness, differences between spirit and soul, what is a gut feeling?, and decolonizing and recolonizing our microbiome. Remember, any support from the "Ancestral Podcast MERCH" helps pay Elders, Knowledge Keepers, and our editors, to follow protocols and keep this podcast going. Dr. Redvers graciously donated her honoraria to: Arctic Indigenous Wellness Foundation ( SHOWNOTES: -definition of "INDIGENOUS SCIENCE:" contextual, holistic, relational, symbolic, non-linear, not limited by time, uses collective observation of its people to explain natural phenomenon through both real and metaphoric narratives. Nicole Redvers ND, Yuria Celidwen PhD, Clinton Schultz PhD, Ojistoh Horn MD, Cicilia Githaiga MA, Melissa Vera RN, Marlikka Perdrisat BComm, Lynn Mad Plume MPH, Daniel Kobei MBA, Myrna Cunningham Kain MD, Anne Poelina PhD, Juan Nelson Rojas, Be'sha Blondin. - Healing is not contextual and non-linear - - University of North Dakota- School of Medicine & Health Sciences: Indigenous Faculty Fridays, with Dr. Nicole Redvers -Food is Medicine -Berries are healing, reduce inflammation and so much more... - "Health Effects of Traditional Indigenous Chokeberry" - "Chokeberry Reduces Inflammation in Human Pre-adipocyte Cells" Dale Brunelle, Nicole Redvers, Kate Larson, Amy Bundy, James Roemmich, & Donald Warne. -Natural Medicine- connection with narratives from home and self - "A Prescription for Nature, Conversation with Dr. Nicole Redvers" -Land as our Guide to Heal - often, we depend on someone else to heal us (which can be a problem with Western Science), but what happens if we reconnect with Land as Healer, Land as where we Reconnect? - even we we breathe in forest air, our white blood cells increase and our cortisol (stress) levels decrease. - you are never along when you are with the Land and Ancestors -Brain & Gut connection -think about following that "gut feeling," and how that can guide us. -look up the "Grandmother Diet" -decolonize and Recolonize our Microbiome -Canada Food guide -the harm this guide has done to many people, specifically Indigenous communities, since it was created by and for European people, with plants and animals common in those origin areas. -many communities are not used to digesting wheat (gluten) or dairy, and their bodies have evolved to processes necessary proteins, sugars, calcium from other foods. -Prophecy from Sahtu Dene Elder Be’sha Blondin - the ground will melt, which will awaken sicknesses (like antrax), and the axis of the Earth has shifted (through the extraction of excess freshwater, and ice melt) which has been observed by shifting in star locations. -this prophecy shows an acute understanding of Natural Law -Call to Action: - you can't give up on your Mother, pay attention to the Earth, and take action - Changes are happening, the plants, trees, animals, are no longer signing. We have to pay attention again, and reconnect with these Ancestors. -What Water are you made from? -humans are 60% water, we need to drink water to survive, therefore we are the water we consume. -we ask you to think about, and do some research on, what water are you made from? What lake, river, groundwater, glacier, leads to your tap? When you travel, you begin to turn into water from another location, and after 3 months of your cells changing, you begin to turn into another water source. How cool is this? -think about where the water you are made from originates, and how you can give back to the spirit of the water that keeps you alive. Links from Dr. Redvers: "The Science of the Sacred" by Dr. Nicole Redvers (book) "The Value of Global Indigenous Knowledge in Planetary Health" by Dr. Nicole Redvers (article) "Determinants of Planetary Health: An Indigenous Consensus perspective" by Dr Nicole Redvers et al. "Urban Land-Based Healing: A Northern Intervention Strategy" by Nicole Redvers, Melanie Nadeau, Donald Prince. "Nicole Redvers on Bridging Indigenous Systems and Modern Science " - Support "The Determinant of Planetary Health Working Group" - Support the Wildfires Remember protocols, and "reference your resources" by connectting the teachings you learn here with the community, Land, and Elder/Knowledge Keeper they were gifted from. Thanks to sponsor BLUE MARBLE SPACE INSTITUTE of SCIENCE and talented editor EMIL STARLIGHT!

Nicole Redvers
I am 60% water tshirt

Episode 8: "Ancestral Science:
Planetary Health through Berries,
Land & Water"

Dr. Nicole Redvers

Dene Naturopathic Doctor

Episode 7: "Ancestral Science:
Strength of Indigenous Science"

Torres Webb

Aboriginal/Torres Strait Islander Educator

We asked Torres "what is science to you?" which lead to a conversation about fish traps and cosmic cycles, the harm terra nullius has done to Indigenous Science, the science of earth ovens, conciliation over reconciliation, Indigenous methodologies and climate change, a strength-based education, and DNA connections to the Earth! Remember, any support from the "Ancestral Podcast MERCH" helps pay Elders, Knowledge Keepers, and our editors, to follow protocols and keep this podcast going. SHOWNOTES: Tobacco Teachings: - We are not necessarily speaking about cigarette tobacco here, although, there are times you have a question for an Elder, and you only have a smoke to give, that is ok!. Or sometimes you can gift an Elder a pack of cigarettes if you know the type they “smudge their lungs with” (that’s code for smoking). - Often, when tobacco is offered or smoked, it is ceremonial tobacco. Which means, it is organic (without all those nasty chemicals you find in cigarettes) and therefore is nice to the land when you make an offering with it, or smoke it. - Ceremonial tobacco also means it is grown and harvested “in a good way”, which means there is ceremony and reciprocity involved in the tobacco planting and harvesting. - Tobacco is used in many communities as a sacred medicine, and as we learned here, even as far away as Torres Strait! With the similarities, there will be differences, so please be humble, and ask about the local processes for offering and harvesting. Torres Strait/Australia FISH TRAPS: - Fish Traps in Gulf od Capentaria: - Brewarina Fish Traps: - Woven Fish Traps: Canadian Indigenous FISH TRAPS: - Treaty in Australia: -,international%20legal%20rights%20and%20obligations. Treaty in Canada: - Terra Nullius (Empty Land): - - Australia's Native Title: - Challenging Terra Nullius (Australia): Conciliation or Reconciliation: - - Placenta and Land Connection: - Placenta Garden (Australia) - Indigenous midwives (Canada) Indigenous Knowledge & Climate Change: - Rising Sea Levels (Australia): - Indg Communities & Climate Resilience (Canada): - Indigenous Climate Hub:,their%20abilities%20to%20access%20essential Pemmican Preservation: - I can't find the article Torres and I were talking about, I will keep searching. But here is one about general pemmican: "The First Astronomers: How Indigenous Elders read the stars" (book) by Duane Hamacher Thanks to sponsor BLUE MARBLE SPACE INSTITUTE of SCIENCE and talented editor EMIL STARLIGHT!

Torres Webb
Austrailia's First Scientists

Episode 6: "Ancestral Science:
Yarning Systems Science"

Dr. Melanie Goodchild

Anishinaabekwe Systems Thinker

Settler Whisperer

We chatted with Anishinaabekwe DR. MELANIE GOODCHILD and asked "what is science to you?" which lead to a conversation about how we talk to the universe, the three types of stories, being a Settler Whisperer, yarning with Duck Shit Tea, reconciliation through "the magical space," and the efficacy of science through art and language. Remember, any support from the "Ancestral Podcast MERCH" helps pay Elders, Knowledge Keepers, and our editors, to follow protocols and keep this podcast going. SHOWNOTES: Melanie's website and article links: -"Relational Systems Thinking: that's how change is going to come, from our Earth Mother" by Melanie Goodchild - "Reparations and Reconciliation: Embracing Indigenous Social Innovation and Changing the Rules of Philanthropy" by Melanie Goodchild - "Duck Shit Tea: Yarning and the Magical Space between things," by Melanie Goodchild Three Types of Stories: Creation, Personal, Life-Story (and how to discover your gifts). We invite you to think about and find your gift(s), and think about your helpers (who, what, have helped you along your journey?). - Niigani Miinigowiziiwin "we give these gifts to the future" "dear big S Science", by Kori Czuy, bringing to the forefront "little s" science of the Land. Two Row Wampum Belt, more info - how do we enter into someone else's lodge, within that magical/sacred middle space? But that is the space where true reconciliation happens. Seventh Fire Prophacy: "Seventh Fire Prophacy with Grandfather Willian Commanda & Elder Claudette Commanda" - what do you choose? Life or Distruction? How do we then share this responsbility? "Sand Talk: How Indigenous thinking can save the world" by Tyson Yunkaporta (book) "Ocean Kiana" talented Nishinaabe Artist. What is Yarning? "Braiding Sweetgrass" by Robin Wall Kimmerer John Mohawk, Seneca author, editor, professor. Science (Indigenous, Relational, Global) is most successful when in relationship with artists and Language Speakers. This allows for science to be contextual, therefore better understood through experience and spirit. Protocols for passing on this knowledge! Please cite your sources by connecting the knowledge with the Elder/Knowledge Keeper and community. This allows the knowledge to stay within community, not be appropriated, and is respectful to the community and knowledge. Thanks to sponsor BLUE MARBLE SPACE INSTITUTE of SCIENCE and talented editor EMIL STARLIGHT!

Rob Cardinal

Siksika Astrophysicist


Episode 4 & 5: "Ancestral Science: Quantum Physics,

Everything is a Reflection"

We chatted with Siksika Astrophysicist ROB CARDINAL about: holistic science, quantum woo woo, frequencies & spirit within quantum (and the emission/absorption spectra), everything is a reflection, rocks never make mistakes, and the "one electron universe." Here we go, on this first two-part episode of Ancestral Science! Remember, any support from the "Ancestral Science Podcast merch" helps pay Elders, Knowledge Keepers, and our editors, to follow protocols and keep this podcast going. SHOWNOTES: - "Lame Deer, Seeker of Visions" Richard Erdoes - Remember Rob's three main methods to do good science (and just be a good human): Gratitide, Humility, Respect. - Dr. Leroy Little Bear (Kainai Nation) "Within Western Science, it is only scientific if it can be measured. But within Indigenous science, it is only scientific if it is in relationship." See Jagged Worldviews Colliding by Leroy (, and a video of Leroy here ( - "Dancing Wu Li Masters: An Overview of the New Physics" Gary Zukav -Emission/Absorption Spectra: "The relationships and connections we make with other animals and world-views is the key to expanding the perception of the world that any one human can access," (Dr. Little Bear). -"Blackfoot Physics: A Journey into the Native American Worldview" F. David Peat. This is a book written by a non-Indigenous author, but he took time to connect with Indigenous people, and spent time at Blackfoot Ceremonies and in community. It is a good way to being having these conversations. check out and support the amazing work that Rob is doing inspiring the next generation to better connect with Science and Indigenous Ways of Knowing. -Willie Ermine (Sturgeon Lake FN) and "Ethical Space" ( - "The One Electron Universe"

We chatted AGAIN with Siksika Astrophysicist ROB CARDINAL about "Everything is a Reflection," who invented math?, determinism/free-will and the universe, flow states, A.I. responsibility and protocol, meaningless coincidences, and always remembering to forgive. Remember, any support from the "Ancestral Podcast MERCH" helps pay Elders, Knowledge Keepers, and our editors, to follow protocols and keep this podcast going. SHOWNOTES: -Science is..."the relationality between the four ways of knowing/being (spiritual, physical, emotional, mental)" -ask yourself the question that stumped me... "Who invented math?" - what is "Spintronics"? - Ceremony and time: when a ceremony is done at the same time (alignment of sun, stars, plant etc..) regularly, then it becomes a cyclical and rhythmic cycle. The moment a ceremony happened throughout this unique and relational cycle, a vector of frequency is created. This information/knowledge gifted or received within this ceremony, both reverberates outwards and also inwards! -Noether Theorem: - Think about water and ice as symmetrical and asymmetrical.... - Pi as the Crux! A circle is never a static circle. - Science and Determinism- Boem's deterministic physical theory. Do you think the universe is deterministic? Do you think we have a choice in how the universe and our everyday changes? What is Free Will? Grandfather Rock has lost its Free Will. (remember, rocks are animate, they are made of particles that are in constant motion, creating frequencies that interact with other particles connected to other rocks, trees, animals, humans, stars ... ). Grandfather rocks are significant for Indigenous Peoples because they hold knowledge from the Ancestors, that through ceremony and relationality, can be gifted to us humans. - Flow State as defined by Rob, is a time when we are gaining a symmetry that is more balanced. Remember the four ways of being/knowing, spiritual/emotional/physical/mental? Often science focuses on only the physical and the mental, and therefore is imbalanced and discounts 50% of the knowledge that is out there! Everything is constantly in flux (as described by Dr. Leroy Little Bear), and therefore is always imbalanced but always trying to balance itself. Remember this the next time you are in a flow state! ( - James Conway's "Game of Life" play it here - Ai as the Event Horizon ( - the "100 Prisoners Puzzle" - Napi and the Rock (Ohkotok and the Glacial Erratic). Presented by Making Treaty 7 CHECK THIS OUT!! - and remember the wise words of Uncle Rob "REMEMBER to FORGiVE"!! Thanks to sponsor BLUE MARBLE SPACE INSTITUTE of SCIENCE and talented editor EMIL STARLIGHT!

RobCardinal. AncestralScience
Indigesteam. Indigenous Science
Indigenous Science. everything is a reflection
My Ancestors were Quantum Physicists. Indigenous Science

Episode 3: "Ancestral Science: Indigenous Science and Education with Aunties Laughing (and a sloth)"

Melissa Roberts

Anishinaabe/Scottish Kwe

MELISSA ROBERTS (Anishinaabe/Scottish Kwe), “What is science to you?” led to conversations about leaves and weather, Auntie support networks, the Sleeping Giant, hot wheel physics, blood memory & Science, and weaving Indigenous ways of knowing and science into the curriculum through hide tanning. Awesome MERCH is available:, (supports Elder honoraria, editing, and keeping the podcast going) Resources from Melissa: To do this work in a good way, first learn about yourself and your ancestors. Find local Elders, Knowledge Keepers, Indigenous dancers/singers/artists/drummers/storytellers, Aunties, (head to a local Friendship Centre, Pow Wow, Native Centre at a University etc...) offer them semaa (tobacco), pour some tea, and LISTEN. They are LIVING LIBRARIES! “Achieving Indigenous Student Success- a guide for Secondary Classrooms” by Pamela Rose Toulouse. An amazing book that can provide excellent guidance for baby Turtle Islander (settlers to North America) teachers. “Braiding Sweetgrass” by Robin Wall Kimmerer. Both of these books are outstanding for illustrating how Indigenous worldviews were the forerunner of Western/Global science. Kimmerer, a Potawatomi woman who is a trained scientist, beautifully explains how Indigenous ways and the Western way can work together to benefit all. “21 Things you may not know about the Indian Act: Helping Canadians Make Reconciliation with Indigenous Peoples a Reality” by Bob Joseph This book shows how the Indian Act of 1876 effected the course of action for the Canadian government to eradicate Indigenous people of Turtle Island and how it still controls Indigenous people today. “The Mishomis Book: The Voice of the Ojibway” by Edward Benton-Banai. This book beautifully shares the Anishinaabeg (Ojibway) way of life and teachings. Kendomang Zhaagodenomenon Lodge (KZ Lodge) @kz.lodge Articles - and Melissa created and facilitated these programs for 2 years alongside the Lakehead Public School Board in Thunder Bay ON. Very cool Globe and Mail ( The program provides traditional, experiential learning on the land that links to the Ontario curriculum, continues today and has even expanded. Teaching hide tanning, beading, snowshoe making, fishing, forest fire fighter training, to tiny home building! The driving factors that Melissa used to develop the program were land, language, culture and community. Embark (Indigenous STEM Education Program) @ Confederation College in Thunder Bay ON. Melissa assisted with the development of this program in the role of Elder, Knowledge Keeper, and instructor. This incredible program offers Indigenous high school graduates and Indigenous women of any age the opportunity to explore and engage in STEM at the college level weaving in Indigenous worldviews and content in all areas of their studies. There are also culture-based sessions that have included building a wiigwaas jimaan (birch bark canoe), making snowshoes, paddles, beading, painting, making drums, and sharing traditional stories and cultural practices. Alicia Brink, a Metis woman, is the manager of the program (who kindly shared her email!) Melissa Roberts also generously offered her email for questions Melissa spoke about Blood Memory as a way of knowing, here is an article about that. ( NorthWest Expansion ( ) “Never about us without us.” Please reach out, ask questions, LISTEN, offer tobacco, and move forward together. Sponsor: Blue Marble Space Institute of Science Editing: Emil Starlight

Melissa Roberta. Indigenous Science. Ancestral Science Podcast
Auntie Science. Indigeous Science. Good Medicine
Melissa Roberts. Little Ray's Exhibitions. Kori
Braiding Sweetgrass. Indigenous Science.

Episode 2: "Ancestral Science: Journeying by Spirit, Stars, & Stones"

Dr. Juan-Carlos Chavez

Cocopah and Yaqui Scientist

Dr. JUAN-CARLOS CHAVEZ began with the question “what is science to you?” which led to conversations about the elements as relationships, navigating by stars, sticks, the corner bush, and whistle frequencies, significance of the teachings of spirit, harms of re-naming, modern maps, “exploration”, and the “white picket fence,” melting icebergs and viruses, and thinking about what is our place in the universe? Support the podcast through buying come cool Ancestral Science MERCH which supports Elder honoraria, editing, and keeping the podcast going. ELEMENTS AS RELATIONSHIPS: the four elements connect to a variety of stories across Turtle Island, with the significance of the number four (4 winds, 4 directions, 4 colours, 4 peoples, 4 ways of living etc.) and how they balance one another. Within the Circle of Life (sometimes referred to as the Medicine Wheel), the four elements - water, fire, earth, air, represent the balance of creation, the relationships between each element, and humans in relation to the Earth. Casey Eagle Speaker (Kainai Nation) says “We are the Land. Our skeletons the mountains/rocks, our breath the wind, our tears the water, our emotions and spirit like the fire.” Sacred Defenders of the Universe @ TELUS Spark Science Centre ( BOARDERS: boarders often disconnect (through politics or conflict), but Dr. Chavez challenges us to think about how boarders can connect by recognizing every tribes unique location (with unique medicines, winds, animals, stories) and each human’s unique gift. How can we better gather together as inter-tribal peoples to learn from one another? Great article by Marcy Angeles of Nednhi Chiricahua Apache. SENSES & NAVIGATION: because of easy access to google maps, humans have become so disconnected from the Land and navigation. Next time you are outside, pay attention to your senses, how can you use them to navigate? Listen to the patterns of the birds, the flow of the rivers, the waves of the ocean, the smells of the flowers, observe the pathways of the sun in relation to the horizon/mountains/stars. SIGNIFICANCE of NAMES: names are identity and can represent gifts, significant moments/achievements, are often gifted in ceremony, and can hold responsibilities. When names are changed, be it a human or a place, these connections to culture and identity are lost. Next time you are driving or walking, pay attention to the street, river, valley, mountain names, whose stories do they reflect? Indigenous Naming Practices, Renaming, Renaming in Canada, Indigenous Peoples Atlas of Canada. POLYANESIAN NAGIVATION: People have been journeying across Mother Earth (over Land and Waters, and in the Sky) for thousands of years, to connect with other communities, trade medicines and food, follow animal migrations, and share knowledge. Navigation using relationships between sky, land, and water, is extremely complex, mathematical, and relational, and stories of the Hokulea are a great way to begin your journey in better understanding this type of Indigenous and Relational science. Hawaiian Navigation, Sticks to Navigate. TIPIS & TELESCOPES: an incredible Indigenous Science Knowledge gathering hosted by the one and only Wilfred Buck. Humans have all looked up at the same skies, but every community, across continents and lands created stories (connected to their own culture, animals, medicines, knowledges, weather) in connection to the stars. Unfortunately, there is often a singular story and name, often from Greek/Roman origin, that we connect with the stars. Tipis and Telescopes embraces and shares stories from various Indigenous communities about the stars and the sky. Remember to support the podcast by purchasing some merch! Sponsored by: Blue Marble Space Institute of Science Editor: Emil Starlight

Juan Carlow Chavez. Indigenous Science. NASA.
Ancestor Mathematicians. Indigenous Science. Indigenous Navigation
braiding sweetgrass. Indigenous Science.

Episode 1: "Ancestral Science: Sky Rivers to Quantum Portals"

Hal Eagletail

Tsuut'ina Nation Knowledge Keeper

We asked HAL EAGLETAIL “what is science to you?” which sparked a conversation about Natural Laws, connections between Quantum, Spirit, and energy, the Sky River, portals, Sasquatch, and how Indigenous ceremonies have gifted knowledge about viruses! Each podcast has its own unique shirt based on the theme of the podcast. SMUDGE: This is a ceremony that involves the burning of dried plant medicines which differ between communities across Turtle Island because we make relationships with the plants that are around us! Some plant medicine knowledge is openly shared but some require protocols, ceremony, and rites. TOBACCO TEACHINGS: We are not necessarily speaking about cigarette tobacco here, although, there are times you have a question for an Elder, and you only have a smoke to give, that is ok! Sometimes you can gift an Elder cigarettes if you know the type they “smudge their lungs with” (that’s code for smoking). Often, when tobacco is offered or smoked, it is ceremonial tobacco which is organic and also means it is grown and harvested “in a good way”, through ceremony and reciprocity. HANTAVIRUS & NAVAJO SCIENCE: I have heard this story a few times from Hal, and never questioned the validity of the story or science. But I wanted to know HOW this story was represented online. At first glance, the stories/research disregard the significance of the Navajo community, Elders, and ceremony in identifying the cause of the outbreak. This is an example of Indigenous scientific processes, methodologies, and worldviews being discounted and removed because they didn’t align with Global Scientific methods. Some great articles (⁠⁠) and (⁠⁠). RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS: Residential schools existed across Turtle Island (Boarding Schools in America) from the mid 1800’s to 1996. Established by the government and Catholic Church, their purpose was to assimilate Indigenous peoples into European culture and religion, by forcing children to live away from their families (sometimes very far away). Physical, Mental, and sexual abuse was common. On May 29, 2021, 215 “anomalies” at the Kamloops Indian Residential school were found, representing 215 bodies. This was not new to Indigenous communities, trying for years to get help in searching for the children that didn’t return home. The TRC estimated in 2015 there maybe upwards of 3200 deaths at residential schools, but since May '21 upwards of 7000 “anomalies” have been found. In residential schools, students were severely disconnected from their family, and therefore disconnected from love. If you are away from your family and love for years you therefore don’t know how to give love. This caused inter-generational trauma therefore significantly increasing addiction rates. Learn this history, hang out at your local Friendship Centre (often in larger cities, they support Indigenous people, host events, and Elders etc.). Read the Truth and Reconciliation Commission ( Read UNDRIP (United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People) ( National Indigenous Residential School 24 hr Crisis Line 1-866-925-4419. Support Residential School Survivors. LIVING TOGETHER: Many ask me "how do I start on my reconciliation journey?" I have learned that "you have to first learn about yourself, your ancestors, and the Land(s) you are connected to" first. Find out who are the original people who thrived on the Lands you were born, live, play on, here. Hand to Heart/ Sponsored by: Blue Marble Space Institute of Science & Cosmic Deer Dancer. Edited by: Emil Starlight, Limelight Multimedia

Hal Eagletail. Emil Starlight. Kori. Indigenous Science. Relational Science Podcast.
Hal Eagletail. Quantum Portals. Podcast.
Braiding Sweetgrass. Indigenous Science.
Night Sky
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Indigenous Science Merch shop.


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